මහරජ මේ ගස කුමක් ද? ස්වාමීණි එය අඹ ගසකි.
මේ අඹ ගස හැර තවත් අඹ ගස් තිබේ ද? එසේය, මේ වනයේ තවත් බොහෝ අඹ ගස් තිබේ.
මේ අඹ ගසත් අනෙකුත් අඹ ගසුත් හැර තවත් ගස් තිබේ ද? එසේය ස්වාමීණි, මේ වනයේ වෙනත් බොහෝ ගස් තිබේ.
ඒ අඹත් ඒ නොඅඹත් හැර තවත් ගස් තිබේ ද? එසේය ස්වාමීණි, එයනම් මේ අඹ ගසය.
ඉහතින් දැක්වූයේ මිහිදු මහ රහතන් වහන්සේත් දෙවන පෑ තිස්ස මහරජුත් අතර පැවැති සංවාදයකි. මෙම සංවාදය තුලින්, මිහිදු හිමියන් විසින් තිස්ස රජුගේ මතක ශක්තිය පරීක්‍ෂාවට ලක් කළේ නැත. උන්වහන්සේ තිස්ස රජුගේ තර්කන හැකියාව පරීක්‍ෂා කළ සේක. තර්කය සහ විතර්කය යනු සත්‍ය ගවේශකයකු තුල තිබිය යුතු අවශ්‍ය ම මෙවලමකි.
මිහිදු මහ රහතන් වහන්සේ තිස්ස මහ රජුට දේශණා කළ චුල්ල හස්ථි පධෝපම සූත‍්‍රයෙන් අපිට කියා දෙන්නේ ධර්ම පිළිගැනීමකින් හා ප‍්‍රථික්‍ෂෙප කිරීමකින් තොරව සත්‍ය දකින තෙක් ගමන යන්නේ කෙසේ ද යන්නයි. පොළොවේ සටහන් වූ හස්ථියකුගේ පතුලේ විශාලත්වය දැක හස්ථියාගේ විශාලත්වයත් කුලයත් දකින්නට නොහැකිය. හස්ථියෙක් පිට අතුල්ලන ලද ගසක් දැක ගසේ පිට අතුල්ලන ලද ස්ථානයට පොළොවේ සිට ඇති උස බලා හස්ථියාගේ විශාලත්වය ගැන නිගමනයකට බැසිය නොහැකි ය. හස්ථියා ගැන නිවැරදි නිගමනයකට පැමිණීමට නම් හස්ථියාම දැකිය යුතුය. හස්ථියා දකින තෙක් හස්ථියා කෙබදු ආකාරයේ ද යන්න ගැන සැකය තිබිය යුතුය. සැකය නැති වන්නේ හස්ථියා දුටු විට පමණි. හස්ථියා දකින්නට පෙර හස්ථියාගේ ස්වභාවය මෙසේ යයි පිළිගතහොත් හස්ථියා දැකීමේ අවස්ථාව මගහැරීයයි. අවාසනාවකට මෙන් බොහෝ සත්‍ය ගවේශකයෝ අන් අය කියා දුන් ධර්ම සැකයකින් තොරවම පිළිගෙන නිවන ඈත් කරගනිති. ඔවුහු ධර්ම කෙරෙහි සැක ඇතිකර ගැනීමට බියවෙති.
තර්කය විතර්කය තුලින් ඥාන පහළ කරගත් ඥාණවන්තයා බුදුන් වහන්සේ දේශණා කරන චුල්ල හස්ථි පධෝපම සූත්රය වැනි ලෞකික උපමා තුලින් ධර්ම දැක ලෝකයෙන් එතෙර වෙති. තර්කය හා විතර්කය නැති සත්වයා තුල ඥාන පහළ නොවෙයි. එමනිසා තර්කය හා විතර්කය නැති අඥානවන්තයා බුදුන් වහස්සේ දේශනා කරන සූත්ර කටපාඩම් කර ඒවා ධාරණය කර ආචාර්ය මහාචාර්ය ආදී උපාධි ලබා ගැල් පන්සියයක බඩු පටවාගෙන වෙළදාමේ යති.
චුල්ල හස්ථි පධෝපම සූත්ර ධර්මයට අනුව ඔබ හස්ථියා දකින්නේ, කැලෑවෙන් එලියට ආ විටය. මෙහි හස්ථියා නම් ප‍්‍රඥාවයි. කැලෑව නම් දැනුමයි. දැනුම නැමති කැලෑවෙන් නිදහස් වන තෙක් ප්රඥාව නැමති හස්ථියා දකින්නට නොහැකි ය.
තර්කය විතර්කය සහ සැකය යමෙක් නිවන කරා මෙහෙය වුව ද මෙම ධර්ම ද නිවනට බාදාවකි.
ආචාර්ය තිස්ස සේනානායක
E-mail:- tissamahima@gmail.com
ඔව්, ඒක ඇත්ත. ප්රඥාව හස්තියකුගේ හැඩයට උපමා කළහොත් එය නොදකින අප අන්ධයන්ට උපමා කළ හැක (පැරණි උපමා කථාව ). එක් එක් අන්ධයා අලියාගේ කකුල, වළිගය, හොඩවැල, කණ ආදිය අල්ලාගෙන, එයම පිළිගෙන, එපමණකින් නැවති අලියා මෙබදු හැඩ ඇති සතෙකැයි නිගමනය කරයි. එහෙත් සැකය, තර්කය හා විතර්කය ඇති අන්ධයන්ට පමණක් නොනැවති, විවිධ පැතිවලින් විමර්ශනය කර හස්තියාගෙ සත්‍යය හැඩයට වඩාත් ආසන්න නිගමනයකට එළඹිය හැකියි. (හස්තියාගේ සැබැම හැඩය දකින්නේ 'පෙනිම' ලබන මොහොතේදිය.)
ප්රඥාව උපමා කරන්නේ හස්තියට විනා හස්තියාගේ හැඩයට නොවේ. ප්රඥාව හස්තියාගේ හැඩයට උපමා කරන්නෝ ලීයෙන් සාදන ලද හස්තියට නියම හස්තියයි රැවටෙති. එසේ රැවටුන බොහෝ දෙනක් ලෝකයෙන් එතෙර නොවී, තමා ලෝකයෙන් එතෙර වී ඇතයි රැවටෙති.
මම හිතන්නේ මේ ලිපිය ලියපු කෙනා අදහස් කරන්නේ චූල හත්ථිපදොපම සූත්රය. ඔය සූත්‍රයේ කොතැනකවත් නෑ හස්තියා දකින්නේ කැලෑවෙන් එලියට ආ විටයි කියලා. අනිත් එක ඔය සූත්ර දේශනාවේ තියෙන්නේ බුදුරජාණන් වහන්සේ ගැන, ආර්ය සද්ධර්මය ගැන, ආර්ය සන්ඝ රත්නය ගැන, නියම ආර්යශ්‍රාවකයා පැහැදීම ඇතිකරගන්න ආකාරය ගැන. මේ නම් බුදුරජාණන් වහන්සේ නමක්මයි කියලා කෙනෙක් ස්ථිර නිගමනයකට එන්නේ සියලු කෙලෙසුන් නසා අරිහත්වයට පත් වූ පසු බවයි මේ උතුම් දේශනාවේ තියෙන්නේ. මේ හිස් මිනිස්සු බුද්ධ දේශනාවත් තමන්ට ඔන හැටියට වෙනස් කරනවා. මේ හිස් පුරුෂයාටද නුවණැති සත්පුරුෂයෙක් පිහිට වෙවා............!
මේ පුරුෂයා ධර්මයෙන් හිස් වුයෙමි. ලෝකය තුල තිබු ජාති ජරා වියදී සහ මරණයෙන් ද හිස් වුයෙමි. ඔබත් හිස් වෙන්න.
"මේ පුරුෂයා ධර්මයෙන් හිස් වුයෙමි. ලෝකය තුල තිබු ජාති ජරා වියදී සහ මරණයෙන් ද හිස් වුයෙමි."
Are you living with sexual pleasure?
Now is there another meaning in your answer?
A person who wants to get rid of desires clearly gets rid of sexual pleasure in no time.
"A person who wants to get rid of desires clearly gets rid of sexual pleasure in no time."
Yes, But Buddha's path is to get rid of Dukka (jathi jara viyadi marana) not the desires. Desire will eliminate after Anagami, but without effort.
"Yes, But Buddha's path is to get rid of Dukka (jathi jara viyadi marana) not the desires. Desire will eliminate after Anagami, but without effort."
But shouldn't there be a control ?
If a person goes to prostitutes regularly, how can he attain Nirvana ?
"If a person goes to prostitutes regularly, how can he attain Nirvana ?"
yes, he can. how? seeing truth.
"yes, he can. how? seeing truth."
By going to prostitutes and having sexual pleasure all the day using all the "uncultured" sexual behaviors, including..... (censored) and at the same time seeing the truth ?
What about Seela ? Five precepts ? The third one ?
"By going to prostitutes and having sexual pleasure all the day using all the "uncultured" sexual behaviors, including..... (censored) and at the same time seeing the truth ?" Yes.
What about Seela ? Five precepts? The third one ?
First attain nirvana, and you have Panna (wisdom) then Seela and Samadi. This Seela is permanent. It is not downdoad and upload from 8 to 5 and 5 to 8.
Isn't the order supposed to be Seela, Samadhi, Pragna ?
What's the point of getting seela and samadhi after attaining Nirvana, because it's over, isn't it ?
So, Dr. Tissa, you aren't telling me that I could go to night clubs at everyday night and have sex with all the girls and ladies and bring some girls to my house and then into my bedroom and put dozens of ladies around my body and tell then to make me to have maximum pleasure all the night everyday, and then attain Nirvana ?
Lord Buddha said, "If a man sleeps on a comfortable bed with pretty ladies / slaves around him, he will not be taking a good sleep because he is burning with the fire of Raga, but wise people who have attained Nirvana like me, even sleeping outdoor over a ground full of leaves at a shivering night will give a good sleep."
Isn't the order supposed to be Seela, Samadhi, Pragna ?
Yes , the order is Pragnna Seela Samadhi.
What's the point of getting seela and samadhi after attaining Nirvana, because it's over, isn't it ?
No point, but what can you do if seela and Samadhi come up without effort after pragna?
He.. he.. No No I am not telling like that. You can attain nirvana once you see the truth. The truth is away from the duality (good and bad etc.).
Yes, once ordinary man realize, he cannot have good sleep on a comfortable bed with pretty ladies / slaves around him, he would go see the Buddha and attained the Nirvana.
"Yes , the order is Pragnna Seela Samadhi."
Please enlighten me on this. Because, isn't the order supposed to be Seela, Samadhi, Pragna ? Without Seela, you can't go to Samadhi and without Samadhi, you can't go to Pragna ?
Long ago (12 yeas back), one of school invited me to give a lecturer to the students. The summary of the lecturer was ‘Without Seela, you can't go to Samadhi and without Samadhi, you can't go to Pragna’. Yes this is the way of all most all Buddhist people are getting to get rid of sansara. I was too. But I had suspicion of this path. I heard only one sentence from the Master Siriwardana. He said that the path to the enlightenment is ‘Pragnna Seela Samadhi’ but not the ‘Seela Samadhi Pragnna’. එම වාක්යt අසා, යටිකුරු වී සිටි මම උඩුකුරු උනා.
"එම වාක්යt අසා, යටිකුරු වී සිටි මම උඩුකුරු උනා."
Dr, are you absolutely sure that it's not the other way round ?; "එම වාක්යt අසා, උඩුකුරු වී සිටි මම යටිකුර උනා." ?
What I have heard from the Thai forest masters, the order is not really a matter. They say that the each quality feeds the other two. Ajahn Chah has once said that it's like a coil of three strings. Each one strenthens the other two and the progess is made only when all the three are present with in the practitioner.
It is very clear even to us. For example, if somebody gives up the attachment to his bad habit of sexual misconduct by his will (this is Panna / Wisdom) he naturally develops his seela and as a result he will be more calm (a coductive state to achive Samadhi) since he knows he is not involved in any wrong doing. On the other hand, if somebody willfully develops seela to refrain from intoxication (drugs etc) it helps developing Panna and Samadhi both.
I am sure in gradual development of noble eightfold path, Buddha should not have meant any strictness of the order in developing the qualities. I think Mr Siriwardana has introduced this new notion just to support his argument that meditation is not useful to attain Nirvana.
"For example, if somebody gives up the attachment to his bad habit of sexual misconduct by his will (this is Panna / Wisdom) he naturally develops his seela....."
Isn't giving up the attachment to his bad habit of sexual misconduct by his will supposed to be Seela ?
According to the Thai masters, "letting things go" even by a beginner is a act of wisdom. However, the act itself amounts to maintaining seela, by defition, you are right.
So again, it is "seela, samadhi, panna DANGARAYA" obviously. Not necessarily occuring one after the completion of the other quality.
In essence, those who have practiced Buddha's teaching in reality (like Ajahn Chah) have not just trapped themselve into the "order of the word in the Paali cannon". Instead, have simply showed us that the traditional teaching is a practical thing to do.....!
Before answering that question, I must tell you that my knowlege on Paali cannon is limited, so my answers on this may not be perfect.
From what I have read, Lord Buddha has deviced a variety of techniques depending on the advisee. To a majority of ordinary desciples he has preached to focus on seela as a prerequisit to practice the path.
In special occasions, like in "Wagiya" (as I remember the name of the monk of the subject) there was a exception. Wagiya complained to the Buddha that he could not remember all the rules of vinaya (seela) and practice them and asked for a simpler formula. So Buddha said " OK, I have a very easy one for you, hereafter when you see something, you think there is nothing more than mere sight. When you listen to something (including dhamma) there is nothing more than sound of it...and so on and so forth for the other sensory objects...." And Buddha assured him the enlightenment sooner if he practiced it. According to the cannon, Wagiya succeded by that practice. This is directly starting from wisdom / panna.
But even in the comtemporary Buddha's time, not everybody was asked to do it, because this is harder for ordinary majority. Buddha geneiously chose the right Kammatthana for the right person.
What Dr Senanyake preaches is more analogous to the above teaching given for Wagiya except for desciptions for killing knowledge. But I doubt the practicability and I reject his idea that this is the only teaching.
There is a very specific detailed description on how to practice noble eight fold path in Visuddhimagga witten by Buddhagosha Thera written after about 1000 years after Buddha. This is considered to be a replacement of Sinhala desciption of how to practice, Hela Atuwaa. Buddhagosha Thera is known as a scholar (like us) not as a practitioner. So people doubts some of his descriptions and practicability. However, the desciptions given by Minhindu Thera in Sinhala called "Hela Atuwaa" has been lost in sometime in between.
The same doubt has been cited by Mr Siriwardana as I heard from someone else. Mr Siriwardana said that the entire story of medition has been a idea of Buddhagosha Thera himself. But when I did little bit of research on this claim, I found that all the other schools of Buddhism including Mahayana, which brought the teaching todate indepedatly from Buddhagosh Thera, do describe Vipassana as the base to enlightenment.
So nobody can prove the claim that medition was not recommended by Buddha.
I think thiis is more than you wanted to hear.....
"So nobody can prove the claim that medition was not recommended by Buddha."
How could someone claim that kind of a thing when even Lord Buddha achieved Buddhahood while meditating ? Wasn't he meditating ?
Let me answer your question little later, I am at work now. This is just a argument made up by Dr Senanyake and his group, but not a sound one.
I heard only one sentence from the Master Siriwardana. He said that the path to the enlightenment is ‘Pragnna Seela Samadhi’ but not the ‘Seela Samadhi Pragnna’.
එම වාක්යt අසා, යටිකුරු වී සිටි මම උඩුකුරු උනා. You know why? I did not hang on the words. There is nothing more than sound of it. You are……….
Many of followers need more and more and more effort to see ‘the effort is use less to see the truth.’ They will carry on their effort more than million of Kalpe if they cannot see ‘the effort is use less to see the truth.’
@ Chamath: Dr Senanayake and his group try to make an argument that Meditation was not helpful for Buddha to attain Nirvana. What they say is that Buddha mentioned he did not have any teacher for his achievement (that's why he is called Samma Sambuddha) and he said all his past efforts were in vain.
This is not a sound argument for more than one reason.
1. Lord Buddha's main formula to achieve Nirvana is based on "Anithya Dukka Anathma", which is very unique and only founded by Siddhartha Gothama. So he can easily say that he did not have a teacher to his main discovery.
2. Even if Buddha says that "I did not have any teacher" does that mean he never used anything existed before. He at least used a laguage he learned from somebody else. This is a place Dr Senanyake and his gounp taking an advatage of a single word without purposely dropping the context.
(But when they lose arguments they'd say "don't take words" :-)....)
3. He said nothing he learned for the past years of wandering before he enlightened were not useful refers to many things.
He practiced all the higher levels of tranquil meditations into Arupa Jhanas, But lord Buddha later said they were not useful. The useful level of traquile meditation was probably an ordinary thing to learn in Buddha’s time. The austere practices of 6 year without even food were not helpful for sure. However, they were someway helpful for him to understand that the true path was somewhere else. Thomas Edison once said he discovered 2000 ways of failing to make a light bulb before he made the working one.
Lord Buddha is a great searcher who really practiced the available methods before he decided that they were not effective. But today Dr Senanyake and his group criticize the Vidharshana meditation not even leaning what it really means. Buddhist practice only recommends a moderate level of tranquil meditation (Samatha) up to Rupa Jhana just to make a conductive mind to observe the sensory inputs without being trapped into them. (But Mr Siriwandane is misleading people by saying that traditional teaching ask for Neva Sanya and Na Sanya level meditations).
So as a conclusion we can see that Dr Senanayake and his group are making arguments to nullify the use of Vidharshana as a mean for attaining Nirvana. For this they have to catch isolated words from here and there to make their argument.
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